Tabletop QOTD 2020-05-02
Borrowing from the idea of the Pluspora Check-in get some tabletop conversation going. If you have any questions that you want to get on the list to be asked, let me know. Also, if you'd like to be added or taken off the list of participants, let me know.
How important are the layout, graphic design, and typography of a game, as distinct from its playability? Have these elements strongly influenced your positive or negative reaction to particular games?
There was a point where a game with very good production values would draw my attention before others. But I've been burned a few times by games that look good, but don't play good. They end up 'looking good' on the shelf, rather than being in play. So I like to think I've evolved beyond that, though editing and typography have made me put down games before I've ever gotten them to the table.
#Tabletop #QOTD
@Eric Franklin
@frasersimons
@Board Games Forum
@Curt Thompson
@Douglas Bailey
@Jesse Butler
@Keith Davies
@Martin Ralya
@Martijn Vos
@Nathan V
@Marsha B
@Stuntman
@Moe Tousignant
@PresGas (OSR) Aspect
@Craig Maloney
@Patrick Marchiodi
@Nathan Norway
@silverwizard
@Stephen Gunnell
@Joseph Teller
@Charles M
How important are the layout, graphic design, and typography of a game, as distinct from its playability? Have these elements strongly influenced your positive or negative reaction to particular games?
There was a point where a game with very good production values would draw my attention before others. But I've been burned a few times by games that look good, but don't play good. They end up 'looking good' on the shelf, rather than being in play. So I like to think I've evolved beyond that, though editing and typography have made me put down games before I've ever gotten them to the table.
#Tabletop #QOTD
@Eric Franklin
@frasersimons
@Board Games Forum
@Curt Thompson
@Douglas Bailey
@Jesse Butler
@Keith Davies
@Martin Ralya
@Martijn Vos
@Nathan V
@Marsha B
@Stuntman
@Moe Tousignant
@PresGas (OSR) Aspect
@Craig Maloney
@Patrick Marchiodi
@Nathan Norway
@silverwizard
@Stephen Gunnell
@Joseph Teller
@Charles M
Stuntman likes this.
Nathan V
in reply to Chuck Dee • •Eric Franklin
in reply to Chuck Dee • •PresGas (OSR) Aspect
in reply to Chuck Dee • •I am finding out that I am not liking the "parchment background" style of many of the 5e books that I have seen. Also lots of graphics all along the margins ...pretty much saying the text is laying on top of a cool background really just bloats the size of digital copies unnecessarily.
For example, I think 1e Stars Without Number is preferred by me mostly because I feel 2e has gone in that layout direction (and also why I find it hard getting into Eclipse Phase and even Star Frontiers for that matter as an older example).
PresGas (OSR) Aspect
in reply to Chuck Dee • •I think the older version of OSRIC is very readable (and the green hues for the tables really help). I also really like #VSCA 's layout. The Illustrations are really well done.
@Alex Schroeder has a love for Tufte layout that I equally enjoy. Seeing the style in @Jeremy Friesen's blog warms my heart.
Patrick Marchiodi
in reply to Chuck Dee • •Good illustrations catch my eye, and I *tend* to associate cheap/bad graphic design with amatorial authors and lower quality games. I know it's not always like that, but then again, I tend to hear about good games from in other ways
Nathan Norway
in reply to Chuck Dee • •Of course, nice illustrations, layout, and typography help a lot convey a mood or kickstart your imagination, not to mention make the whole thing more readable and pleasant to stare at (assuming it's not overdone or busy). Which is a huge plus! But I also like some games with relatively spartan, plain layout and typography.
@Chuck Dee @Charles M @Craig Maloney @Curt Thompson @Douglas Bailey @Eric Franklin @frasersimons @Jesse Butler @Joseph Teller @Keith Davies @Marsha B @Martijn Vos @Martin Ralya @Moe Tousignant @Nathan V @Patrick Marchiodi @PresGas (OSR) Aspect @silverwizard @Stephen Gunnell @Stuntman
Keith Davies
in reply to Chuck Dee • •I can appreciate good layout in a bad game, but it is unlikely to overcome a bad game.
Thankfully, as observed above, most good games care about layout, so do it well.
TL;DR: I'll suffer a good game with poor layout, but not a ooor game with good layout.
Joseph [Moved to Glasswings] Teller
in reply to Chuck Dee • •A Good graphic layout, if graphics are used, should act as mental mnemonic that lets you remember where a specific section or important piece of data is. This eliminates the need to memorize page numbers or look for such in an index or table of contents.
They should, if there is a setting involved, represent the setting in some way (such as architecture, clothing, etc.) to give a feel for the setting. They might also give a feel for the setting, setting tone, when possible.
That said, I don't react badly to low graphic high text material.... but I do react badly to material that is full of way too tiny text or has graphics bleed that obscures/covers the content.
Stephen Gunnell
in reply to Chuck Dee • •I wish production companies would specify the kind of lay-flat binding that O'Reilly used to use on their reference books.
I do really think that the preponderance of multi volume, high production value, glossy, hard bound rule sets is actually an impediment to getting new people started in role playing or even in a particular rules set.
Stuntman
in reply to Chuck Dee • •I do appreciate a good production value when it comes to games. However, I find that even games with high production values sometimes make it hard for me to identify the pieces out of the box. An example is Fortune & Glory. The game is expensive and one reason is the high quality of the components. It uses thick card stock and miniatures for all of the pieces. The one difficulty I have is that all of the player pieces are grey. When looking for my particular piece, I find it not easy to discern which of the grey pieces is mine. I have added stickers to the bases with writing to assist in discerning which piece is which. I do understand that often people paint miniatures. I don't feel I should have to do that in order to be able to easily identify the pieces.
Martijn Vos
in reply to Chuck Dee • •Moe Tousignant
in reply to Chuck Dee • •The key here is playability,
I want to be able to read the cards in whatever zone they need to be read in. For example if I only need to read the cards in zone one (my hand) then the font can be small and there can be lots of flavour text and information on them. If I need to read them in zone 4 (the comunal play area) they better be large text and or symbols that I can easily see from across the board.
Now as for distinct from playability, for board games I care more than I would like to think. I've been playing a growing number of prototype copies of games as I get more involved in tabletop game reviews and playtesting and there's a distinctly different feel and level of enjoyment from playing something with abstract functional components to playing something fully artistically realized. Graphic design, layout and typography should tie everything together and should express the theme of the game. Distinct styles should be used for different elements of the game to separate them during play. And more of all none of that should affect playability (to bring things full circle).